AI in Music and the Masks of an Artist with Brogan Kerrison (AU NZ Music Podcast)

Welcome to the AU-NZ Music Podcast, where Reuben (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GYMjot⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) dives into the Australian and New Zealand music scene with industry guests, sharing insights on music news, standout tracks, and artist development.

Episode 9 features Brogan, who is the artist, creative and producer behind ⁠Glencoe⁠. He is currently preparing new songs for a release cycle starting at the end of this year.

• ​📰 News Fix: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AI-Generated Songs Detected In Golden Guitar Award Entries⁠
• ​🎶 Song Spotlight: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rick (Cold Outside) - Glencoe
• ​🦾 Artist Development: Accepting Yourself as an artist and the Masks of Self.

This podcast is presented by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GYMjot: Get Your Musical Journey On Track⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, an artist development service based in Melbourne. If you are ready to unlock your inner artist, then get in touch today to get a⁠⁠⁠

FREE 30-minute consultation⁠⁠⁠!

Below is an auto-generated transcript from our episode, which you can stream on YouTube or your local podcast service.

Kiaora folks, here we are. Episode nine of the AU NZ music podcast. Welcome back. [Music] Today I am here with another Malbor night. How are you doing today, Broen? >> Good, mate. Very good. Very good. >> Nice. Well, we'll just jump straight in and I'll give you a little bit of background gossip about Broen and his musical happenings. So, as I said, today we're hanging out with an artist and producer, aka Glen Co, originally from Christ Church, New Zealand. Music runs in his blood.

His late father played with legends like Billy T. James and his brother Jason Kerrison fronted the multi-awward-winning NZ band Op. Broen first picked up DJing to pay his way through university spinning tracks at the local student bar every weekend. Even though he's been writing music since he was 14, it wasn't until 2016 that he started releasing his own work. Now, Broen is stepping into an exciting new chapter of his creative life, ready to share fresh sounds with the world in the coming months. He already has 10

singles streaming across all platforms, and we can't wait to hear what's next. So, thanks for dropping by today, Bergen. Pleasure to have you here, >> mate. That's a fair ride. Appreciate it. Thanks. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Know, it's good to be here. >> We like to >> We like to give you some glitter to shine in. For sure. Easy work for you, mate. Easy work. Cool. All right. We also ask our guests for one silly fact unrelated to music. Hit us. What do you

got? >> Fact. Um, silly fact. I've got Oh, I love trains, man. I love trains. I love train. I love these like even the the little miniature ones. Um, I don't know if you've seen them. And they're like they're they're like replicas but they're like steam. Some of them are coal and you can sit on them. You can ride them like you know you can ride them around these little miniature things. Dude, I love them. I follow all the Instagram pages. I reckon it's cool. That's just a a

random thing that I like. There's some in Altona if you're in Melbourne. If you ever want to go see them, you can go you can ride on them in Altona last last Sunday of the month. >> Just if you wanted to. That is a fun silly fact. I didn't know that about you. So, yeah, I feel enlightened already. >> Beautiful. The train man. Cool. Do you like riding the train to work as well? >> Uh, I do like riding the train. I think that's more because I'm from a little old Christ Church, so we don't have

anything like that. It's just easy. But also, driving in Melbourne sucks. It's just traffic everywhere. >> But yeah, I do. I I specifically like the Vines because they're they're diesel. Majority of them diesel trains. So you feel the the grunt of it, you know, at work. >> And so the metro trains are electric. >> Yeah. Yep. They will now sustain. >> Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Good work, Melbs. Cool. Uh got a new train coming, too. So that's exciting. Connect that airport to the

city. Everyone's going to be happy about that. So, we are recording here on the 30th of September and our news piece is from the 19th of September. It's from Country Towns writer Megan Hopkins published a piece entitled AI Generated Songs Detected in Golden Guitar Award entries. The Country Music Association of Australia, the CMAA, has drawn a firm line in the sand on artificial intelligence, announcing a major rule change for the 2026 Golden Guitar Awards after several entries were discovered to be entirely AI generated.

The CMAA board announced that only fully human created works will be eligible as of now. Any song performance or production created using AI, whether in lyrics, melody, vocals, arrangement, or instrumentation, will not be considered in the awards. The CMAA chairman Dob Newton issued a strong statement defending the values behind the change. quoted, "The use of AI to generate musical works is fundamentally at odds with the heritage and intent of our awards, which were created to celebrate the creativity of our songwriters,

musicians, performers, and producers. While we welcome technology that supports and enhances creativity, we are resolute that it must never replace human artistry. For 54 years, the Golden Guitar Awards has honored excellence in Australian country music fueled by authentic human creativity. Beyond the awards themselves, the CMAA is joining global calls for stronger protections, including regulations around AI training, artist consent, and fair payment when work is used to train or power AI systems.

very topical and I know it's a bit of a roller coaster ride living in this world of music with AI and we swing between the positives and the negatives of such innovations. But where are you at today, Broen? >> What is your sense on not just the effect of AI in the music industry, but creative expression at large? it. Exactly like you said. I flip, I flop, I go all over the place because it's one I mean from a bit of a self-proclaimed tech nerd. I think it's crazy. I think it's so cool. Like we

were just I was today just talking about a um I have a song at the moment and I saw like a just an ad on Instagram, you know, um create your own v vocals with AI and I was like, oh, I'll check it out kind of thing. I've already got like a lead track and I had some harmony ideas anyways down, but I it was more just exploratory. See what happens. Whack the the um the lead vocal in there and it spat me so I could choose from like 85 different singers, you know. So that's one was Jess and she was like a country

um female singer and then one was James who was a country um male pop rock artist kind of thing. So, and it was it was fun to play with. It was and I mean, you know, it's AI, so it's it's spot on. Exactly. You know, I chose a third, so it was specifically a third of but only thing is of every note. So, if I didn't quite hit my note, it didn't quite hit its note, you know. And I mean, I think there's other functions in there where you can just autotune it fully, you know, and it it does, but it was just

amazing to see to be totally honest. It was really cool. Um, what it sped out was >> totally free. >> Not totally free. Not totally. Well, it was free because I had like you get like a certain amount of minutes that you can use. >> Yeah. Right. >> And then I went through the minutes not knowing what I had that and blah blah blah. So, it like it for that first part it was um and then if I want to do anything else after that, I have to pay for it. Um, but yeah, it was it was

good. The only thing I would say it's just not good enough for it to be like it probably took me an hour and a half when if I were just singing it, it would probably take me 45 an hour, you know, max cuz I had to choose it, choose the person, choose the songs, and then some of the ones that it didn't hit, I'd then have to go through later and edit it, take out certain parts and stuff. So, I wouldn't say it's super efficient, but I'd say it's cool. I'd say it's

really good. Um enough yet. >> Well, that's it. It exactly yet. You know, once it once it knows exactly instead of it just it's an algorithm, I guess, so it just follows exactly that third. But if it was to figure out that, okay, the note that I hit was wrong. So, it just adjusts to that. That's sorted, you know. So, that makes that easier. That takes the editing part out of it. Uh, but I mean, the other thing is I I think is there not is there not creativity in that you know choosing

between Jess Sam whatever the sound may be that you want to you know you know work with the vocal that you have maybe that's creation I guess but >> even just choosing to use the platform itself is that a creative decision >> exactly exactly I think we've gone from I I look at taint you know He that was autotune before everyone knew what autotune was and then that was his sound you know and then when people realized oh he's using a computer to sound good and everyone's like oh that's bad but

the 10 years before that he was doing it and he goes famous as no one really cared cuz it was a sound you know but I I don't know I just want to put this out there though I agree with what they've done I I think it should be if if there's awards and things on the line. I'd say I'd say that's probably I'd say it's probably fair. It's probably fair, but also how you going to draw those lines. You know, it also it kind of makes me think about like the Olympics being drugfree. It's like the

AI is the cheat code, the drug that you can use and now they're trying to ban it. They're testing for AI in the in the musical awards systems. >> Exactly. Testing before you get your your accolades. Did you pass the test? But I mean that's the thing that it said lyrics there, right? So like how does it know that I use chat GPT to find the second line of the verse, you know, like >> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. >> It's I think it's going to it's probably

maybe it's more of a statement. Maybe it's more of a statement that we don't want you to use it, but we we have to you have >> inspires a little bit of fear in the entrance as well. maybe like, "Oh, I know I used it. Like, am I really going to try put this in sort of thing?" And what I was going to lean into is that it feels like it's going to be accepted more willingly by certain genres, right? Like country feels like one of those genres that's been so staunch on their

authentic expression for so long. Um, and I know that they're riding like a popular wave at the moment. So maybe that changes the boundaries of authenticity acceptable, but if you think about like electronic music, it just feels like AI is going to be integrated into that so much more easily with less resistance as opposed to folk music. That's to be honest when I think about electronic music I think what's what's left you know if it can create the the house track you know or if it can create

the the D&B track if it can create the vocals maybe maybe that kind of moves towards it goes right back to kind of stone ages when there was like instruments and a voice you know maybe those those autotune bung notes we were talking about. Maybe those are the notes that we want to hear because AI is so perfect or on pitch all the time. Maybe >> I don't Yeah. >> Yeah. It's hard to say yet because we're we're actually it's a cultural movement this perfection mechanism. I seen that

some one of the Scandinavian countries has recently made a a law that any photo used in advertising has to have a label on it saying if the photo has been edited like it's edited their body in any way, shape or form. >> So, so acknowledging that they've um attained this perfect form with the help of a computer. >> M M >> I mean that's I I think that's I mean you go as far as when you're consuming so much content now you know like I think about younger the younger ages and

things like that when you've got perfect perfectly sculpted bodies and you know males females all the inbetweens like you see it and I mean if I was kid I'd be like wow I need to look like that to feel normal which is not normal you know which is not normal at all. Um, I was going to ask with back on that that part about the AI. If you were to create a song, would you would you feel bad for using AI? No, I wouldn't feel bad. Or would I? >> It depends to what extent, I guess. Hey,

like what have I done? Have I literally just text prompt to a song? I wouldn't feel like I've done >> I wouldn't feel like I've created a song. But if I used AI in the same similar way that you did it, maybe to do harmonies or um maybe to do like well definitely like mastering. I've used it for mastering >> um or mixing or something like this. Not to say that those aren't creative practices, but they're practices that I can't do. So maybe when you're

outsourcing what you can't do to AI, it doesn't feel so cheaty, so guilty. >> Yeah. The guilt isn't as there cuz you I mean you I was going to send it off to a mastering engineer anyway or a mixing engineer anyway. But instead, this is just not a person. It's a whatever whatever it is, an AI. Yeah. I don't know. That was one question I had. And I kind of thought what I mean regardless of like these are the guidelines this song has to hit can't have any of this. I don't know. Do do I

feel bad for for stemming out some some harmonies, you know? Should I feel bad about that? Am I going to use them? Can I can I still use them without that, you know, then still get sleep at night? I you know, that's that that for me it's like a moral compass. Well, I would say for me, much like with autotune, it was a slow burn. I was very against autotune to start because it felt like it was stealing from the art of singing with control and pitch and like sort of like leaving singing like expertise to a reserved class

somewhat >> and it took, you know, talent, but it took practice and effort and confidence to be a good singer. Um, but I'll use autotune in the sandbox all the time now. One, just cuz it gets the idea done quicker. Two, cuz it's kind of funky and fun and silly. >> And three, I don't know. It can just be easier sometimes. I don't really I don't use autotune on the tracks that I've released. at least maybe just a few notes to touch up, but I'm not slamming it with autotune, you know, like the the

the non-educated listener wouldn't wouldn't hear it. >> That Well, that's that's the other thing like the the non-educated listener and I guess like that's what I think. I was thinking the same thing with my vocals like say my lead vocal still my lead vocal there's that's processed. It's got compression on it. It's got EQs, which is all computer based stuff anyway. But then I think about, okay, I add the the um the harmonies in there. I kind of think people don't know they're there.

They they know that, oh, that sounds nice, but they don't know. Oh, that's a third harmony. Oh, he's a there's a fifth in there as well. Check that out. Wait, that doesn't sound like his specific vocal tone. That sounds like Josh the AI from Country. No one's thinking that deep. So, it's like, does it even matter? But then you question, well, who are you making it for? Do is are you making it for yourself or you making it for them? Or I don't know. It's >> does it even matter to you? I guess is

the real question. Eh, >> that's >> as you said before, does it can you sleep at night with it? >> Yeah, exactly. Am I going to be able to sleep at night? You know, if 17 people or 17 million people hear it, like don't know. Yeah. complicated territory. Complicated indeed. Um, that brings us to the end of part one. Anyway, and this week we're very blessed to have a song from Glinko himself. Rogan's sharing uh an unreleased song with us today called Rick Cold Outside. Um, and we'll come

back and talk about that >> in detail and some of the production and recording processes. He went to the inspirations and whatnot. Bit of a story behind the track. But for now, have a little listen, tune in, and yeah, this full song will be out at some point. But until then, hot take. See you soon. [Music] We stay close. Oh, I've been where you are. We all got scars. Oh, when you lost in my last night, I'll be by your side. Your guiding light [Music] behind. I will hold you tight.

>> The best way to be accepted is to be yourself. is not to change yourself to what someone else thinks. In a sea of information, the more yours is personal, the more it's not like theirs. It's yours. [Music] >> Rick, cold outside from our very own Glinko on the air right now with us. So tell me, how did you find the sample of Rick Rubin talking in Monologue? Where did you get that from? I was obsessed with him. I am obsessed with him to be totally honest with you. So I was listening to a lot of his like

interviews and podcasts and just a lot of different things. Uh, so yeah, I was just kind of scaring around and like as I'd listen to them, I'd take down little like um three 3 minutes 10 or whatever. >> Mhm. >> Like little little kind of like timestamps. Yeah. >> That I liked. >> So it's from a collection of different uh interviews or monologue sections. It's not just one kadinka donk. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. No. I think it's cut from like oh like maybe six or seven of them or

so. Some of them like um like preview ones that he's done you know before he released a interview or podcast. Some of them are from like long podcasts like threehour podcast. So So yeah they're like just little exits things and I just kind of snip them together in different parts to kind of try and make a sentence. But I mean it all makes what he usually says anyway of those things is is along those lines. But that was what he's saying in that song for me is what spoke to me I guess you know what I

was hearing. >> Yeah it's a it's a really good book his the creative act. How did you process his voice in that song? What did you add to it? Um, I added I eqed a lot of it because a lot of it wasn't great quality that I had. >> Um, and I compressed a lot of it, like heaps of it to kind of get it to stand out a bit. >> Um, and he he's got quite a deep voice. I can't even do it. So, I had to take out a lot of his like low end and things. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. But like, you know, I mean, I

listen to him a lot, but it, you know, I feel like as soon as you hear it, you're like, "Oh, that's Rick Rubin." >> Yeah. >> I would say that's, you know, but if you know who he is, I think you'd know what who's talking. >> Yeah. Nice >> kind of thing. >> Um, and the vocal line on top, how how have you managed to come across that? That's obviously not you singing. Hey, it's me AI. >> That's not >> sir. >> Uh, it's just a sample. It's just a

sample. It's a um splice sample that I had found. Well, there was like a Yeah, if she done like a whole song kind of thing. Um, and then just took out what kind of That's the thing with samples obviously, you know, could be talking about cheese and the song's about I don't know, whatever. So it so I kind of tried to find something that sounded cool, which I really like her voice. I think it's really cool. >> Um and um yeah, just extracted that that part of it that kind of sounded like um I'll

be by your side >> when it's cold out. >> Um >> nice. >> Yeah. More essentially towards music itself, you know. It's funny because those are those are the two feature prominent points at the front of the mix, aren't they, Rick and uh this sample of this girl singing. But what really caught my attention is the atmospheric elements, the very subtle elements that you're the way you've processed some of those vocals and how they sit in the headphones. And then just brief moments of featuring

instrumentation to keep that atmosphere interesting enough without diverting attention. And obviously I love the bounce of the chorus. Feels like it's on the upbeat or something. Like it's got this real like sort of like backlash feel to it. >> Um. >> Yeah. Who were the primary inspirations behind the feel of the track? Fred again. It's in the project is is called Fred Deep. I wanted to make a like a a deep house song, but the I to so a good friend of mine, Ruben Gray, actually gave me the the Rick Rubin's

book um for for my birthday. And then I started reader and obviously and then I got obsessed with them and kind of because at that time if I'm totally honest with getting vulnerable about things I always saw music as a as a as commerce like he explains. Um, and I I didn't see it as like a natural expression like I didn't I didn't I didn't respect that that it you know how we how we express and how we you know u create. Um but what I loved about Fred again I found that like he's if you if

you follow him at all he's he's an absolute freak man. He can produce anything but he just he goes he works so fast. He's he's working so fast that he he can't be thinking about it. He's just like, "All right, that feels good. Boom, next element." Uh, no, no, no. It feels good. Boom, next element. It's not like a It's not like a pro like ah that I don't know. That high end doesn't really work with that low end. Plus, that sound's not really trending on TikTok at

the moment. So, I don't know if I should use it. He's not thinking, man. He's just doing. And I I really wanted to try and make a song that I just felt I didn't I didn't if it felt right, even if I was like that's weird. I don't know if that's kind of in at the moment. Who cares? Just put it in there. Move on. Um, and that's I I wanted inspired around around um Fred again >> and that's where that kind of bounce came from cuz a lot of his songs uses like uh that kind of side chain heavily,

you know, when it brings in that the kind of um drums and things like that and he has a lot of different kind of shakers that kind of move around and things. So that I mean that's that's why I I was just listening to a lot of his stuff at the time and really wanted that kind of bounce sound, you know. >> Yeah. But I appreciate someone else. >> Yeah. I think it's a tick a tick of approval. I think you I think you've captured that. Um do you have a release date for the song yet or a release uh

projected date? month. >> Uh, probably start of next year. >> I'm thinking start of next year. >> I've got I got to I want to I want to summer. It feels like summer to me that song. So, um I have one that I I do want to release probably in November, end of November. It's like a drummer bass track. And then on the other side of um of the new year, I'm thinking I'll come into the new with that song with a bit of bounce. While we're dealing with that and the network readjusts itself,

I'm just going to do a little bit of an ad spin for Jim Jot and then we'll come back and talk about some artist development in more detail. So song feedback is is something a service that Jim Jot offers and you can head on over to jimjot.com.au AU to access a free service where we provide one page worth of notes about your song. Or you can upgrade the service to get an indepth full analysis of that song. And who knows, maybe your submission ends up right here on the AU NZ music podcast. And feedback is a very

important tool for artist development. In fact, artist development is where Jim Jot thrives. With our tried and tested development course, you can unlock your inner artist and find your musical direction all within the context of your situation. So, zoom over to jimjot.com.auu to book your free 30inut consultation right now. Okay. And so, this is my favorite part of every podcast. That's why I leave it to the end, right? Artist development. We've already sort of alluded to some of the um

creative barriers that you've been contending with um recently with the production of this song and exposure to Rick Rubin as well um and some of his ideas around creativity. Um let's let's bring it to the now in the last few weeks sort of thing. any aha moments that you have encountered around your artistry, your creative expression. It can it can be um the next domino in the series of events that is that came from this song, but anything that's happened in the last few weeks for you artist development wise,

please share. artist development wise. Um, man, to be honest, I think there's a couple things, but I think the one thing um, artist development it even even being able to accept that you're an artist. >> I think that's I think for me that was something that I was I never really wanted to accept. I didn't want to I didn't want to step into those shoes because one what if what if I I I fail you know an artist has to be big artist has to be a big deal you know it has to be it has to be

a freed gain or a Skrillex um I also think I think there's a spir spiritual a spiritual side of of being an artist. I think one once you accept like yeah I'm going to do this. I want to be an artist. I want to be an artist. There's also a like a again Rick talks about a lot of people talk about um is drawing from a source. I always thought like what if we run out of songs or what if there's like not enough songs to write. But there I mean the the artist way um that you gave me as well.

I've been reading that and it it kind of explains that um I've I've a bit of context. So I've I've grown up playing rugby, you know, went to an all boy school at the end. A bit of a bravado. So spirituality isn't a thing, you know, that's that's taboo. We don't we don't go there. We don't talk about that. Like that's that's too woo woo, you know. And I think for me, you know, one accepting that I'm an artist, two means I need to, you know, you get a

bit spiritual about things. You you think deeper into into certain things, you know, um a breakup, why did it happen? What are the feelings that you felt about it, you know, that you maybe weren't able to explain or or talk about? And I think drawing down into some of those that artistry itself that that was for me that was the aha moment. I was like, let let all of those like those those kind of constructs that you saw yourself as as a rugby player or a strong bravado type guy that doesn't talk about spirituality

and who isn't woo woo because that's that's that is purely what's holding you back from from one being able to express what you want to express and two being the person that you feel comfortable with not a person who you who's just t putting on the face you know I But in saying that, like I it's taken me years to even figure out that's a space. It's taken me a counselor to figure out that that's a that's a a face that I'm putting on and the person that I really want to be or

who I want to be is trying to scratch at the door and has probably for a while. So, I mean, if I was to boil that all into one thing, I'd say just accept yourself as an artist. I think that's the first place to to start. >> Be that image. step into those shoes. Don't be afraid of that. >> Yeah, you're you're alluding to removing some of the filters of self and the barriers we impose, the masks we wear. Um, how are you going to defend yourself from wearing those masks moving forward?

Cuz they're inevitably going to keep coming back on. And you could even make an argument. I'm sure there's lots of artists out there who struggle with removing the artist mask as opposed to putting it on. It's always as opposed to taking it off. It's always stuck on their face. Like they can't remove it. Especially in the age of social media, it's like you're always always marketing. >> You're always representing your brand. There's no removing yourself from that.

You are the brand. How how do how do we balance that? How do we move forward with that with a sense of authenticity and without getting stuck so much in the the content management of of what an artist is demanded to do in our days. >> Yeah, that's a great point cuz like it like you've said before, it's a hungry machine. It it it just you want to absorb as much and then you probably buy into that a lot. I I I not to say that I I I still have those I still have those faces I guess that I that parts that I I

do like enjoy enjoying. So So rugby I love I love rugby. I love sport. I love that's that's that's an image that I I I take on um and that I that I I like I like that part. Um so I mean same everyone talks about it but you know balance it. I think it's just kind of balancing those certain fa faces that of that things that we go through in life, you know, that it it could have been seen. Some of those things were maybe holding me back from being a person which could be seen as a negative lie. I don't think

it's it does not they don't have to be negative, you know, like there were a lot of positives. Like I really like sport. I really have some really strong um friendships and um things with with some of the guys I went to school with and and things like that. So, it's not something like it's a bad thing, but I think it it you just got to keep it in check. Uh what am I going to do? Um I don't know. I'm learning that. I guess I'm learning that. I think the main thing for me is probably um I think it's

understanding that things that I had felt or things that I felt I wanted to do or say or or sing or be or whatever, I always felt them there. If I'm totally honest, I could always feel those things there, but I just never let them come through. Um, so I think for me it's more about not not pushing down those things, you know, like not pushing down the um, you know, the the the the singing or the the playing or performing and and live. And I think that kind of will keep me keep me in that that light of an artist,

you know, even if I want to shy away. Um, and two, honestly, I I think it comes down to a strong network around you. if you're if you are in the right place and you have the right friends and family and things like that. And I think sometimes you might have to choose, you know, some people that you might like and might be in your friendship group, but they might not be the best um or things there. There's been a couple of those and in recent situations for myself that I've been good friends with

for a while, but when it came to me kind of releasing music or me singing publicly, they were always the first people to say something negative. Although they were some of my best mates. Um, and I I had to um basically say, "Look, hey, I appreciate it, but I'd appreciate it if you just didn't message me at all anymore and just kind of cut that one off, which is hard." Which is really hard, but I think your safe space is your safe space. And if you really want to be someone and be an image, and if

that person isn't serving you, it's time to stop being a people pleaser. And I think that's part of it, too. and cutting some of those off. What's best for you? >> Yeah, powerful words. It's It's not easy to manage and add day an age the demands of an artistry whilst keeping a a level of sanity and well-being if we can. Um, especially in the information age as well, just drowning in everyone saying you should do this, you should do that, you need to have a cold shower every morning, you

need to drink 75 L of water every minute. It's always something new, some sort of optimization scandal being thrown down your throat. Um, and it's much the same in the music industry, too. There's there's lots of ideas about how to navigate the waters. The reality is there's no one way to do it. There's only your way to do it because it's I I'm still a believer that the authenticity shines through. I still think that if you're projecting the love and passion of something you're doing, I

think people resonate with that. Um, obviously it's there's still a quality standard and it's very competitive uh competitive atmosphere at the moment in terms of you're competing with another 100,000 songs being uploaded to just Spotify every day. >> So, it's flooded to say the least. Um, so it has to be good. It has to have good quality, but it has to be real, too. I still think you've got a better chance being real and true to yourself than you do trying to project something

onto the world and trying to be something you're not. Cuz then you're living like this kind of falsehood, this lie and then you start to get crossed over with where you are in that and what is your where is your authentic expression in that and it's really you can lose touch of that really quickly. It'll surprise you. So for me, there's only one way to go when it comes to creative expression. It's just got to be true to yourself in that moment. >> Yeah, agreed. 100% agreed. I don't think

I even realized that till recently. You know, if anything, I if anything, if you asked me that maybe even 3 years ago, four years ago, I'd be like, check this guy out, man. What's he talking about? Like he needs to get his head out of the sky, you know? Like but the I mean and and I think now I think you're dead right. I I think I I think I always I thought of music like I said as a business because I've got rent to pay. I got to pay for food and I'm like yeah it's all good being expression like you

know doing be authentic and express but how am I going to eat? How am I going to live? You know and I I always put put that kind of that negative spin onto it which again I didn't realize until I started reading that that book that you gave me that the artist way. Well, I mean, I didn't realize that was actually a thing that a lot of people do as it's they're purely just excuses as to why you can't or why you don't want to let that inner creator, that inner child out. Um, so yeah, no, I 100% 100% agree

with that. Now, for sure. Great. So, on that note, we will let Rick Cold Outside play out here for the end of part two. Broen, do you have anywhere you'd like to direct people so they can follow your musical journey moving forward? Find me on Instagram, Rogue Co., B R O G C O E. Brog Co. Uh, Spotify, Gleno. Um, yeah, if you want to, you don't have to, but that's where I'll be. You heard it here first, folks. New music coming next year from Gleninko. Thanks so much for joining us today everyone. Big shout

out to Brogan. And until the next month, we'll see you then. Take care. Stay true to yourself. Haha.