Spotify Wrapped and Creativity with Robert Daglish (AU-NZ Music Podcast)

Welcome to the AU-NZ Music Podcast, where Reuben (⁠⁠⁠⁠GYMjot⁠⁠⁠⁠) dives into the Australian and New Zealand music scene with industry guests, sharing insights on music news, standout tracks, and artist development.

Episode 3 features Rob, who works as an Artist Development Coach (⁠Rob Reframe⁠) and creates music under the name ⁠Booker Brooks.⁠

• 📰 News Fix:⁠ ⁠⁠Australia's Spotify Wrapped Revealed⁠
• 🎶 Song Spotlight:⁠ ⁠Grow Apart⁠- Aiste Lukk
• 🦾 Artist Development: Pillars of Creativity - Expression, Discipline, and Imagination.

Please excuse some clipping on my Mic!

This podcast is presented by ⁠⁠⁠GYMjot: Get Your Musical Journey On Track⁠⁠⁠, an artist development service based in Melbourne. If you are ready to unlock your inner artist, then get in touch today for a

FREE 30-minute Consult.

Below is an auto-generated transcript of the episode, which you can stream on YouTube or a podcast service.

Kiaora folks here we are episode three of the Australia New Zealand music podcast [Music] welcome today I'm with my dear friend and creative wizard Robert daglish how are we doing my friend hello very good yeah ready to pod on the cast fabulous podcasting it uh just a little bit of background information on Rob he um studied music in Christ Church New Zealand and has been in several projects uh since then uh including Hard Rock Project Skelter and he plays a lot of G in and around Christ Church at the

moment but more specifically he's focusing on a solo album under his Alias Booker Brooks who has released a few projects or singles now at least right have you released an album I've done one album It's called oneway ticket it's on Spotify that's right yep there you go go get your streams up uh not just that though he's also a mixing engineer and a producer and works out of his business Brookside audio so if you're looking for something to do with those Endeavors he is your man and

just to cap it all off he has a very fun YouTube channel called reframe reframe and it focuses on personal development through the lens of music and that is our friend Rob and Rob I just like you get a guess just to break the ice a bit a little bit of a silly fun fact about themselves mhm you got anything juicy silly and fun huh well I don't know you know you said silly and fun and I thought no I'm going to go serious and rigid and and uh he is yeah here's my serious and rigid fact about myself is

that uh I like creating notion databases so I'm kind of like a a database nerd I like little looking at numbers go across the screen and and um making templates that that uh you know uh allow me to see data in a in in certain ways um which is very folks who don't know what it is could you tell us what notion is yeah notion is uh note taking app but the difference is that you can create databases in it so it just means like you can see things like a filing cabinet um and then open up the filing

cabinet and see different organizations in different ways uh I've actually created a notion database for songs songwriting as well so um that's it's just an example of my little nerdy fun little fact yeah but yeah I've used this this template yeah it's it's a handy little template for getting all the bits and Bobs all the nuts and screws to do with a song into one confine space you know me I'm also a bit of a temp plate wizard myself we'll hear a bit more about that later on in the show oh yeah

but first and foremost we are here with our news of the week um today's article comes from uh Mary V varis it was written on the 6th of December and it was from themusic.com.au I believe it was entitled Australia's Spotify wrapped revealed the artists who dominated 2024 in streams landing on December 5th the Spotify wrapped cultural sheer Fest began looking at the Aussie stat it's clear dance music which I feel is quite a broad uh label is one of the most popular genres in fact it is now ex an

exporting Powerhouse sick and only to pop music and I'm just going to list a few facts here the kid Leroy was the most newly discovered Australian artist by global audiences and the most streamed artist in the Asia Pacific the USA was named the country where Australian artists were most streamed the most most ver streem the most from outside of Australia followed by the UK Germany Canada and strangely enough Mexico sneaking in N A repeated title for the Wiggles as Australia's most streamed local artist while we seem to

still be obsessed with Vance Joy's Rip Tide as the top locally streamed track and it wouldn't be a Spotify rap story without a shout out to T Swift of course she was the most streamed artist of the year with her latest album The tortured poets Department which was also the most streamed album so you know we all get a a bit of a buzz from the Spotify wrapped thing what what do you think is the significance to the music scene of Spotify wrapped and the equivalent features from other platforms yet you

know I think it's safe to say at this point that Spotify is the leading source of music listening experiences in Australia and New Zealand so yeah Rob give me your thoughts on the significance to the music scene of these these features well I feel like personally we uh sometimes think about our Spotify wrapped in the future and go what's going to be on my Spotify WRA and so then we sometimes uh you know go what am I listening to and change what we're listening to to be like well I want it to be you know something

reflected on my Spotify rap that I'm proud of but interesting the only reason I thought of that instantly was cuz you know I listen to vocal warm-ups to sing and so I'll go on my Spotify and look up vocal warm-ups and then and then select one and I remember in like 2019 or something it it was my most played Song and all five of them were so I was just like ah hump yeah but yeah I mean this is the problem with it for me too probably for the last four years my top track has been a vocal warm-up which is in a

playlist so yes obviously the top songs only um only add up data when you've clicked on the song it's not the most listened song it's the most clicked song and so I had that and then all of my other top songs were to do with teaching because a lot of Taylor Swift I was a top 15% Taylor Swift listener not even a big Taylor Swift hand yep not a big hater but not a big fan not a 15% fan but no no no no my kids want to learn this so yep I was a top 0.1% B's fan cuz I went on a tour for six weeks playing B

songs so I had to learn all of their songs yes so for me it wasn't reflective but I think for most people in society it totally is reflective um cuz they're not like doing these music jobs um so culturally what does that what does that mean I mean when we share our Spotify repap we're kind of proud of it we're like hey this is what I listen to and then it allows you to connect to other people who listen to the similar music you know they might post it as their story and then you see that they've

posted that they listen to that artist and you it's your top Artist as well you can then connect and become friends on that level totally totally I think that that is what they've gone for they've gone for this opening a a a tool of connectivity through musical tastes and musical tastes is one of those things that is a pillar of connectivity at large we we often uh gravitate towards people with a similar musical taste especially in our teenage years I find that often High School groups are

defined by musical taste definely and in many contexts yeah 100% I was I was in the middle core scene uh cuz I was in a middle band and all of my friends listen to middle and then uh all of the friends from different schools listen to middle so that's how we connected yeah I have a question um is the data about wrapped publicly available so so so what artists um you know are the biggest in whatever genre obviously that article says some of that so maybe it is yeah yeah I don't know if the data is publicly available or not

they're somehow getting their hands on it so and must they got their hands on it very quick too they got their hands on it the day after however you know Spotify could be collaborating with these news outlets these media Outlets to further get momentum behind the wrapped thing so they give them access to the data to like pick and choose what they find interesting for their specific audience because there's a whole other um Global stats that are that I've read too which is you know slightly different

but you know we're focusing in on Australia here on this uh article but maybe it is maybe it is publicly available not sure I'm wondering if it is then can individual Independent Artists leverage that um in some ways to uh inform their music not that kind of works against what I think is the um best way for an artist to maybe write music but like it might be a way a strategic way that some people could um change their music to to suit some form of popularity if they're looking to do that

I think that reflects yeah I I think that reflects on something else that you mentioned earlier is that you're almost trying to um cheery pick your Spotify R so it displays a certain amount of uh songs or artist or taste that you're trying to like we is a Persona a personality mhm is is it is that not the same thing if an artist was doing that too using that data to try and predict the future self project themselves into their future and a taste that they're trying to offer yeah it's

certainly not uh the way that I would think that true truly popular music becomes popular like by like you know using that D data I'm thinking that might be something that some people try to do with that data if it is available I personally think like the the reptide thing is a huge reflection of the power of like a good song that's kind of authentically written um and that can have any kind of skin you know or or um production to it you know so um it could be a dance song but it's a well-written

song you know it has interesting Melodies and and um uh lyrics that cap capture people and then that's Timeless and that was that was released in 2013 that really has passed the Timeless test yeah yeah it's like cover band kind of level you you you play it in a covers band yeah yeah oh yeah totally and everyone knows it for sure were there any other stats that grabbed your attention that I wizzed by there I'm just questioning like what about Taylor Swift make makes her this like Powerhouse for so many years you know

mhm like she she's been in it she's been doing it and and I get like what we just said kind of might apply she writes great songs and uh they're authentic you know no matter the clothes cuz she's done lots of different genres um yeah but what about her it's more than music you know what I think with her songs in particular I think her songs offer a sense of um fantasy and and simpleness that I think we underestimate how much people want to escape into that world through music you know like it's nothing

it's not political it's not controversial it's often just about love you know and like like what we would call almost like Disney love you know like silly tales about people falling in love and I like I said not a hater you know I I think there's a there's audience there that might have been neglected over over the past few years um it's fair to say that this was her climax though like I seen the Glo Global stats top 10 albums streamed this year three of them were Taylor Swift she I

think she was number one number four and number six yes so that's that's stardom that's telling that's bigger than than Talent that's starden mhm mhm yeah it's quite intense um um do you think she's strategic in this like do you think she's always been strategic or do you think she just writes what she's like thinking without she she kind of knows who she's singing to but is it is it her is it her her being in in its entirety can it not be both it can I think she's found the flavor and I she's

definitely being strategic on a business angle mhm like the IRAs tour was massive and I went for ages and I didn't go to any of the shows but man you talk to some fans and that was like a highlight that like a top five event of their life you know right up there with the with their kid being born or whatever yes you know um I mean the shows are probably definitely strategic on the business end yeah yeah definitely strategic on the business end songwriting hard to say yeah I imagine she has um she will collaborate a lot in her

songwriting I know that she does in fact all those artists do they're all collaborating so yeah it's it's hard to say I mean props up so so dance music is the biggest biggest music but Taylor Swift is actually the biggest music yes yeah that's right that's right Yeah dance music yeah so so what is dance music well I Reon the reason dance music is one of the biggest is because it shows us that there's a different function for music now because like I mean uh I don't know uh when are people

listening to dance music you know when they want to dance probably it's called dance music but I don't know are people listening to dance music before they go to go to bed you know are they are they are they just listening to dance music or is it a um reflection of our society that we must be doing something else to be engaging in in the music I think a bit label would be upbeat music I think dancing puts one one action in mind but dance music is going to be used what once again still don't really know what we're talking

about when we say dance music feels pretty broad like is the be's dance music or skrillix dance music or is Taylor Swift C dance music I can dance to them all I'm dancing yeah but am I am I washing the dishes while I'm listening to dance music for that sense of like you know I've got a little bit of momentum am I going for a run am I pushing weights am I biking am I just walking do I just does it just make me feel good give me some energy um it's a transmitter it's a transmitter of energy

music yeah yeah and I I spoke like it puts you in an upbeat mood it puts you in a feeling that you want to um do something so when you're doing something you feel productive and you feel good you know uh a lot of s like sad music might have a different function um you know and maybe our society is sad so we're trying to pick ourselves up with the music we listen to I don't know I don't know that that could be the cultural message and as my partner has wrote on a canvas painted on the wall

when sad dance this is this is the motto well there we are that uh that applies hey on that note my friend let's listen to some some local music there semi half local we've got an artist called a Luke who is a Lithuanian artist who's recently moved to Melbourne uh we're going to listen to her song called grow apart and then we'll come back and give you a little bit of a little bit of an analysis stay tuned folks holding on to pieces that you left behind all the things we kept in silence

screaming in my mind how do I Let Go Now how do I sleep inside this room without you when got drunk again cold and sick for school I thought grown I'm a child when it comes still why you make it hard me you come and visit soon you w't and it all comes down back to this again [Music] M people grow [Music] apart grow apart from H and I hope I'm saying that right sorry if I am not my friend uh Rob initial thoughts feelings what grabbed your attention well at the start it kind of comes in with like a like a

lowii like like all the highend is kind of rolled off um but and then the vocals coming in it kind of gives me a little bit of like a Tom Odell Black Friday feeling but it's it's a bit more upbeat you know maybe a bit more Dancy you could say uh than that cuz that song's quite like soft and but something about The Melodies I feel like she might be influenced by it or something um I love the soft harmonies on both sides yes really soft and chill um and the base notice the base isn't really in the

track for a while um so when it comes in it it hits you uh which is cool mhm uh it's got an interesting like chorus Groove that kind of feels like a um like a um a country beat yeah yeah yeah I got that yeah MH but it doesn't have the Ghost Notes so it's it is just kind of thing um yeah but it feels like that's implied uh which is cool so it's an interesting Indie and then you could say country BL yeah yeah Indie country yeah nice I don't want to I don't want to give it

country actually I don't really no yeah no her voice is very soft yeah it's it's very nice voice um paramel in the ears love it um I love the acoustic guitar to start y it's beautiful it it just um sets the tone and then her voice just layers on top of it and I really do like you said those atmospheric vocal Parts um sometimes non- lyrical vocal parts were um just that little crispy extra M taster that we needed on the side mhm um yeah I I um I almost felt like the Bas hit me a bit too strong that could be a

consequence of my um headphones as well um but the song sort of just it danced along it did dance along there was a something dancing in it there's a Simplicity to it I like I like the comp uh the climax MH too the it's a nice it's it's a nice little Melody M yeah so I actually came across ASD at um uh the an open mic night that I host here in Melbourne called The Listening Room we're going to be hosting that on um on Wednesdays once a month at a place called The Night Hawks in abbottsford

Collingwood area so who knows folks get down there and maybe you'll end up in the ear of the Australian New Zealand music podcast as well mhm mhm any final words on the song There Rob yeah uh I thought the meaning of the song is cool so like I think throughout the verses yes the the there's a transformation in a way I I don't feel like the transformation was completely resolved um so I feel like in the first verse it's kind of about struggling to come to grips with the fact that growing apart

is happening um like lines like how do I sleep inside this room without you like it's like oh I can't even fathom that idea of this this is going to happen you know um but then the second verse seems to be about facing the reality of it having happened and then the other person moving on and it's like um Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind like she she says like I wish that happened to me I wish I could do that you know which is pretty much saying like I want to erase my memory of this

person be because and then she implies that they've moved on you know they're with someone else um so it's kind of like bringing us through the process which I think is yeah really cool well you've done really well to pick all that up because for me those lyrics just don't enter my Consciousness so much my my ear automatically goes to the music including the melody and then some lines cut through mhm but not many mhm I'm the same upon first listen usually uh but then I'm also trying to

figure out what like to me when the song means something and like kind of makes sense when the chorus is saying something and then the verses are supporting it it really matters it makes me feel the song on a deeper level yeah it's almost like the frame on the picture yeah isn't it yeah yeah definitely yeah well speaking of um analysis of songs Jim jot we also offer a song feedback service which you can send your songs into me I will give them that one listen analysis maybe I'm not going to grab all the lyrics but I'll

give you what I get and or you can send me in a uh for the the premium level and you can get 12 lessons where I'm looking into each specific element of the song dissecting it in in very fine fine detail to give you um maybe some assistance moving the song forward maybe you're at a stuck point or maybe you just want to some peace of mind around the song who knows it's it it's good to get feedback on your songs to know how you're going to develop not just that song but songs moving into the

future too and at the end of the day we are just an ongoing canvas of songs that we want to keep on improving so you can check that out um but Jim J's heart and soul is all about artist development get your musical Journey on track the template that I offer here another uh in detail process a marathon if you will looking into all sorts of introspective tools creative insights goal setting scheduling tactics habits this is what we really Excel out with Jim Jim jot please do go over to jim.com toau and check out those

services today now talking about artist development more Rob in your experience working with other artists what have you found to be the point of resonance that most most frequently resonates with artists the most the the the the gift you've given people that gives them that aha transformation uh I think it's unraveling awareness so you know it from childhood we have many different blocks and ideas that we've been uh fed by our upbringing and um surrounded by so we think are normal you know uh and then

they they often act as blocks of creativity because they're in the form of limiting beliefs uh so it's things like uh I'm not good at this so why do this um uh I can't make money from this so I do this you know uh mhm even like my my my voice is not good so why do this you know so uh those inhibit your ability to collaborate um as well as even be taught so like you know I someone will come to an artist development session and then I'll try and get them to sing and it'll be a real

struggle for in that first session so um I think an aha moment as I said is unraveling their awareness of about why they feel these certain blockages in MH their expression because expression shining the light on those blockages exactly yeah and that's just simply through questioning uh asking about their experiences uh also me being so open with uh my willingness to be dumb or uh be embarrass myself or what or sing badly Sing Out Of Tune it doesn't matter it's also it's also action too though

right it's like experimenting with those blockages with the awareness at the same time mhm yep yeah uh yeah it's it's it's pushing past them through tickling them you know tickling the little the little uh pain points and then making them kind of things we could laugh about even or you know when you write when you write a song about these certain things uh that's the process of working through the thing and so that it can no longer stop you yeah yeah has some cathartic value

of the Soul mhm now you've you've sort of alluded to one of your pillars of creativity there which is expression MH um could you tell us a little bit more about your insights into creativity and maybe maybe even shine a light of awareness onto some of those other pillars sure oh yeah yeah yeah so expression is the one where we kind of use our uh a form to bring to life something that we're feeling in a certain moment uh it it's often not iterative so you don't uh you know you

don't kind of uh uh change it and change it until it's different it it's it's in the moment and then when you get to imagination which is another pillar of creativity you'd uh you're then using your creative faculty to bring together different ideas and mold the expression into something uh that's maybe uh more iterative right but then when we use the third pillar of creativity which is discipline you can then uh bring a deeper form to those two the imagination and expression because it's about like

containing all that chaos of the imagination all the chaos of the expression and then turning it into like one single perfect thing and that's your art form and that might be a song you know yeah right beautiful these are these are some things that you can um you can get more a bit more of a deeper dive if you tune into Rob's channel on reframe he he centers a lot of his work on these pillars but in creative ways funnily enough um now just one more question to turn it back to artist development for you rob

as an artist yourself could you tell us an experience a specific experience or um an event or one of those aha moments for you something that really changed the way you act as an artist okay so I've always been an artist and everyone always has no matter even if they say they have or haven't uh mhm but the the for becomes different throughout your life so for me in music um it started as like playing guitar and then writing you know mental music and instrumental music it wasn't vocal based

you know uh but then there came a time where I started to enjoy a different kind of music uh so I started to enjoy the beatle so I like singing right but I realized that I couldn't match pitch with my voice I knew I had the capability to sing well because I had the capability to perceive the notes on the guitar really accurately and bend to notes so I could perceive music well I just didn't have the mech mechanisms to do it or having I hadn't practiced the mechanisms to do it yet um so I think at

that time for me it was maybe less of an aha moment but more of a like okay so all I have to do is apply discipline to my expression of my voice um and you know imagine my future being able to do it and that's singing you know right so this is more of a a stretched out story and that you came across a a hurdle of expression almost um big time you identified that hurdle mhm and then you ask the question how do I clear that hurdle yeah and then you had it was a work thing it wasn't that overnight remedy

yeah it wasn't like now I can apply my ear cuz you're essentially saying like if you know how to bend a note and you know what note sounds good on a guitar you're saying that your ear is in tune with your desire to express to an extent mhm but you couldn't do that you didn't have the muscles almost in tune you didn't have the coordination of muscles but I had the music in me voal cords and I think a lot of people have the music in them it like but they they're they don't think that they can do it so then

they don't develop the discipline to do it because they don't develop the imagination that they can do it and then um so they it they can't develop that creative freedom which is what the pillars are about yeah and that's that's a blockage as all musicians we deal with even if you are ident identifying as a musician there's something that you don't believe you can do I think a big one's production I think a lot of people would just be like no that's for the professionals mhm um

try try try because the the tools are becoming more and more accessible mhm and uh I'm sure you have a phone so there's there's no cost barrier here to explore this this skill set you know and this language and learn how to coordinate those modes as well it really does broaden your scope of creativity yes all these different Avenues whether it's an instrument or uh vocal lesson or like I said production skills whatever it is yeah even even basic knowledge of those will increase your ability to

Express within them uh a lot of the time it's it's actually the blockage uh which would be an aha moment you need to get by would be the limiting belief that you're not good enough to be able to even learn that or you don't have the discipline to be able to you know commit to that I can't commit all the time all the time yeah and and it and it and it's you know might be a reality if you think it's a reality yeah yeah yeah it's always a reality it will be a reality if you tell

yourself that's what's happening yes yeah that's the narrative that you're occupying mhm it's all about changing that narrative team reframe awesome reframe nice all right Rob I reck we can uh wrap it up there that was awesome thanks for joining us here on the Australian New Zealand music podcast do you have any uh places you want to lead people leave them with any links details hit me uh yes I would love to um so on my website as I mentioned at the start of the video I have a songwriting

database that I think would be valuable for a lot of your listeners uh for anyone who write songs it's just a place where you can keep all of your songs in one place including the recordings the lyrics the chord progressions and it's completely free so I I would like to give your viewers value um so you can go to Brookside audio.com and then slf free resources that's where that's has there's also a free sample pack on there uh so it'll be super cool for people to go download that uh alternatively you

can go check out my YouTube channel as with as been mentioned in this uh podcast a whole bunch and that's Rob reframe and then maybe look up Rob reframe creativity and that'll come up and then my artist page on Spotify which is book of Brooks uh and then my album name is oneway ticket so yeah go check those out cool and you might have some new works for us by the time this one is in 2025 oh yeah all right team all righty righty righty thanks again we'll see you in another month ciao