Supporting Australia Music and Creative Alignment with Ash Kennedy (AU-NZ Music Podcast)

Welcome to the AU-NZ Music Podcast, where Reuben (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GYMjot⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) dives into the Australian and New Zealand music scene with industry guests, sharing insights on music news, standout tracks, and artist development.

Episode 4 features Ash, who works as a full-time musician, teaching vocals and singing backup vocals. She also has experience as an artist development coach and creates original music as ⁠Ash Kennedy⁠.

• ​📰 News Fix:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify quotas, $250 fees and a 24-hour rage channel⁠
• ​🎶 Song Spotlight:⁠ ⁠⁠When I Wake ⁠- ANUJA
• ​🦾 Artist Development: Finding your realm of comfort and connecting to your authentic artist.

Hit subscribe for a monthly digest of the AU/NZ music industry!

This podcast is presented by ⁠⁠⁠⁠GYMjot: Get Your Musical Journey On Track⁠⁠⁠⁠, an artist development service based in Melbourne. If you are ready to unlock your inner artist, then get in touch today to get a

FREE 30-minute consultation!

Below is an auto-generated transcript, which is streamable on YouTube and your podcast service.

Kiaora team, here we are. Episode four of the Australia, New Zealand Music [Music] Podcast. Yes. Today I'm here with my friend in Melbourne, Ash Kennedy. How you doing? I just got nervous for some reason, but I'm sure I'm sure it's fine. It's nothing nothing changed except this little box of stuff that says recording. Yeah. Yeah, it's live, but it's not live. This probably we're airing here on in late February 2025. Not sure when this will be out exactly, but in due time. So, I'm just going to

give you a little bit of a debrief about who Ash is. And as I said, she's from Melbourne. And she is a full-time music teaching and playing regular gigs and making a living through her music. Ash is widely known for her vocal skills which has led her to touring opportunities collaborating on stage and recording in the studio with the likes of Tones and I uh Thano and Genesis Ausu. Am I saying that right? Pretty close. Tando is um she's an artist from Melbourne. She's super she's doing huge

things. She just put out a new um a new album. I believe it's an album, not an EP that uh called Lessons in Love that I just worked on with her in the studio. You'll be able to hear me on there because I'm sticking out. She really wanted my voice on the album in it for glory. But yeah, and Genesis Osu. Yeah, that was right. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And that's also led to opportunities playing in venues such as the Sydney Opera House and Rod Lever Arena. Uh Ash's debut single received praise and play from

Triple J and recently released her first self-produced vocal on Separation Anxiety in October 2024. What was that debut single called again? Point of view point of view. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Cool. So, that's a little bit about Ash. Um and Ash, we do like to ask our guests for one silly fact unrelated to music. I'm sure you've got a few up your sleeve, but uh hit me on hard to choose just one. Um Mhm. I think silly fact of mine is that I am obsessed with The Sims. Um

and then I spend way too much time building houses and redecorating on the Sims. It is like it's actually close to an addiction and I'm working on weaning back off it again. But I've been playing it since I was like a kid. since like I first had a computer and I feel like it's just the mo it's sort of like a guilty pleasure for me and I don't think a lot of people know that when I'm not replying it's probably because I'm in another realm which is Sims 4. Yeah, I was just going to ask is it Sims

4? Yeah. What did you what did you first play? Did you play the first? Yeah, I did only for a little bit because then Sims 2 came out and then that's that's the one that sold it for me. Um never had Sims 3. that one. I don't know how I missed that. I think I was still playing Sims 2 and then um yeah, Sims 4 came out and it's been out for like over 10 years now. So, it's like wow. Yeah, they just keep adding more stuff. They do an update. Um I don't know. We all want an update. I say we as in I'm as if I'm

part of some Sims community. You're the spokesperson, but they No one knows who I am. I'm just a little human on playing other playing with other humans. They're not humans, are they? Ash Sims. Sure. Let's go with that. Sure. Yeah, we'll go with that. Ash Sims Kennedy. Let's go. All right. Let's get into this week's uh news digest. This one is entitled Spotify quotas, $250 fees, and a 24-hour rage channel. These are solutions Australian musicians say can solve the save the industry. Solve the

industry. That'd be a good one. This one's by Hannah Murphy and it's a little bit older. It was uh released back in August of 2024, but I think it's worth a bit of a chat. So Hannah Murphy is reporting with Damian Johnson, who is a musician under the artist name Damian. He made a submission to the Federal Parliament's inquiry into Australia's live music scene in early 2024. Now, this article explores solutions to the neverending financial struggles a musician encounters. Firstly, a minimum $250 fee

per gig. Now, Ireland has something similar to this where 2,000 artists are supported by government grant scheme with a basic income of €325 a week for three years. Olivia Halley, musician and academic said, "Providing artists in the live sector with a basic income would mean that there is a larger diversity of voices, including artists who are parents, those living with chronic health conditions, mid-career and late career artists, artists of different abilities and varied economic, educational, and

cultural backgrounds, and young people who otherwise would not have the opportunity. The second solution is the old McDonald's vers the local burger shop scenario. Damian has a call for the government to support local music more rather than imported music from global superstars. Cafes, malls, radio advertising are all places for Aussie artists to get in the ears of Aussies to create that familiarity. There's even a call to create local music quotas on Spotify algorithms. We are currently culturally colonized by

America. It's time to reclaim the airspace for our own artists. And lastly is the Michael rule. Michael McMarten was renowned for his long tenure as the manager for Australian band Hudoo Gurus and his work as a founding member of the music managers forum of Australia. His rule is based on a voluntary agreement with booking agents and the like. Booking agents and the like that every show from an international artist should feature an Australian artist on the bill. Dr. Mororrow who is an experienced

uh arts and cultural manager said some promoters had already adopted Michael's rules although the association of artists and managers the AAM had already flagged possibly taking the rule further stating the AM note that if there isn't sufficient take up of the rule by live music promoters then they will make formal representations to the government to use the visa system to release No, realize the goal of having Australian artists open for international ones instead. Words. Lots of words. Whoa.

Lots of words. Basically, three solutions being proposed there. the $250 fee per gig, the uh more representation in local businesses and the Spotify quota, and then the Michael rule, which is having an artist on every international artist support slot. So, as a working musician, Ash, what are your primary struggles and what are your thoughts on some of these solutions? Hm. I think my primary struggle as a musician is, and I think most people would agree with this, is just consistency and security. And I think um

you know, although I've been in the industry a long time, like if you look at like obviously the intro that you just gave me, I guess like you might look at that and go, "Oh, well, you mustn't have the same problem of like um maybe worrying financially about where the next you know, money is going to come from when it comes to gigs. Um, so my teaching income greatly helps with that and creates that stability so that I'm able to [Music] then have less security from gigs. So, I would say that the issue there is that

it's really hard to know, you know, where your next dollar is coming from and how long you have to wait to also be paid because sometimes they take time and also how much you're going to be paid for that gig because those gigs are different depending on if it's an original gig or a covers gig. So, I think it's interesting because I think whenever I read these articles, they're so they always like use music and musicians as like such a it's such a for in my head that's such a wide um

spectrum of a bunch of different jobs within that even as a performer. So, I guess are we talking about original music? Are we talking about uh covers? Because I also know a lot of people who make so much money off that. Yeah. Right. Right. Well, it's a it's a bit of a tricky one. I guess it sounds like just from that description you've given that the $250 fee per gig would add some more consistency and regularity to your income scheme, especially like I don't know how the Ireland government manages

to do that. And that's another thing I was thinking when I was reading it is like what like how does that actually function? who is getting that um that funding because then it's also looking at like because I agree giving everyone opportunity to create that art like in diverse scenarios and different backgrounds for example um they mentioned like people with disability and parents and and things like that and at the same time I think uh then like where's like how are you supposed to

know who qualifies for that? Yeah. Yeah. And how do you select anyway? Like 2,000 artists, not that many either, right? I that's so when I was reading that, I was just a bit confused about how that would work logistically. And who who are those artists? What that's the thing with all these ideas, isn't it? It's like they such beautiful ideas, but what's the reality of making this happen? And where because there's a sacrifice, right? Like cuz that money is coming from somewhere

and now it's not going somewhere else. And we don't know how the government uses their money. But but at the same time, like I think a 250 like staple payment for a gig is reasonable and probably a good start. Um, it's just hard to sort of have an opinion on exactly what that would look like, but on the surface it seems like a good Yeah, that would be nice to have like consistent um regular and I guess secure income or like some you know I'm trying to think of the word where like you

know it's definitely coming in. I guess secure is what I'm going to go with but you know what I mean. Yeah, secure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I it's almost like making a a minimum wage for musicians. Yeah. For live performing musicians. I mean, that would have been probably handy for me when I was back at uni, like first starting and picking up gigs here and there and not being paid. I think uh I think I read in the article they were talking about it avoids people being um paid in exposure, which I think

is a really big problem um in the industry. And I think you don't pay a caterer um for uh in exposure. You know, you're not going to say, "Hey, come do my wedding and I'll put it on social media, do it for free." They have to buy all the resources. I think we have to do that, too. But obviously, it's just looks very different. A lot of people don't really know um what that looks like. So, yeah, I think any anything that brings up a conversation is good, but yeah, I'm not

sure what the solution is there in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah, I do like uh Michael's rule though. I like the idea of having an Australian artist supporting every international global superstar coming in. That feels like that feels like something that logistically is I think Yeah. And I think on the greater like if we look at on a social level when it comes to Australian music, I think there is an awareness towards Australian music. Um, however, I don't know if it's pushed by a lot of like mainstream

radio. So like Triple J obviously we we know that they're always celebrating Australian music, but like when we look at in different genres like more in like pop or um like mainstream sort of music, I think there tends to be less less opportunity for those artists to be pushed onto mainstream radio. I think Nova does it sometimes. But um I and I don't think radio necessarily is the only answer, but I think what I'm thinking about is sort of the awareness of Australians to Australian music and

then becoming fans of those artists. Just having that access and awareness and being pushed by our own community. I think that's something that yeah, we always get excited about international acts obviously, but I wonder how we can kind of give that that um excitement back into the more local scene as well. And I think yeah, the Aussie Aussie support act is a really good way to do that. Michael's rule. Yeah. What do you reckon about the the quotas on Spotify algorithms? I thought that was quite an interesting idea. I haven't

heard anything like that before. Yeah. Again, I feel like when I was reading it, I was still unsure about how that would exactly work. Mhm. And I think that is the trouble sometimes when we're like reading articles is just like it feels like a halfbaked idea that's just like here's a here's a solution guys like see we are thinking about it and then it like the world moves on and nothing actually happens you know like I I wonder what that how that actually would play out and how that would work you know. Mhm.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it would almost have to be initiated by Spotify, wouldn't it? Spotify would have to make a play that they're going to make an active effort to support local musics across the globe, which is a whole And they do in a way. I guess that then comes down to like a whole um business strategy for them as well, like how that would play out for them. Um because like I guess Spotify is always going to try and cover their own back and make the most money that they can. um it's a business after

all and there's a lot of problems with Spotify and payment and all that in general anyway. So I feel like of course um but I think yeah there there are playlist like local playlists like that are generated on Spotify as well which I think is is awesome. I think I wonder if everyone knows that that they exist. Yeah. I don't know if people turn to it for their listening habits, but you've got like the is it the local release radar? I think so. I don't remember the name of it. Um you've definitely got like the new

release uh new release Fridays. Yeah. And that's specific for Australia and New Zealand, but it's not just Australia, New Type in like Australian artists or like whatever or local local radar or something like that. I think there are a few different playlists. Um something radar. Yeah, I'm feeling that word. Yeah. Yeah. Anyh who, um I had another question regarding this. Uh have you seen any changes over the last year or any developments that have either since this was written in uh

August? anything that's affected the livelihood of full-time musicians either the positively or negatively just just here in Melbourne even just for you and anything your circle of friends have you seen any developments? No, I don't think so. No, I think honestly the landscape hasn't changed much since I first started. The only thing that's changed is that I've now developed a network that I'm working with artists that are with labels. So therefore, I'm able to get paid for like g some of the gigs

that I'm doing. Um maybe more than what I would have in the past. Um but I wouldn't say that like the on on a local level that anything has really changed. If anything, I think that for a lot of actually maybe changed for the worse in some scenarios for some of my friends in the way that I know that there's a big focus on DJs at the moment and um you know electronic music which is great. We love we love all all music. Um however that does mean that there's more of a budget for one person

than a band. So, I've seen bands get pushed out of venues when they had a residency and be replaced by um a DJ cuz they're just bringing in more people. Um and I think that's a tricky one because like electronic music has its place and deserves to be celebrated and we we want to be there with them. Like I love electronic music. Um, but there also needs to be a space where bands don't feel like they're going to lose their spot because they'd rather, you know, pay someone who can just sort of appease

um and play music that a lot of people already know. Um, so I think original music then can become kind of pushed to the wayside or like those opportunities aren't really given out anymore unless it's like a Wednesday night. And even then, the only people going out on a Wednesday night to those gigs are the people who have always been going out on a Wednesday night to those gigs. So, um I don't know. I think there's something going on there when it comes to the live music scene. um when it comes to original I

also know that I know that a lot of bars are struggling as well just still in the repercussions of co so that's that's sort of left a bit of a economic crisis on hand for all the bars and I think it ripples all the way through right it's like the we and that's why I think it's so difficult is because um the this it seems systematic and it seems like it's coming all the way through culture through like our social behavior behaviors and then also it's impacting the artists and it's

impacting the venues and it's impacting um then like your career as an artist like can you actually sustain it people are stopping and then going and doing something else and um even music universities I remember when I was at uni like people were they were struggling to get people to even study music because people weren't they were like you can't make money anymore so I have problems with that as well it's like I don't want to feel disempowered by that mindset of like you can't make

money in this industry cuz I do and I know I can but I'm I want to make it clear that I'm not only doing original music. Yeah. Yeah. Teaching is supplementing your ability to explore those opportunities. So I think we're work we're always trying to work within the system that we have at the time but it doesn't mean that the system is necessarily set up to work with us the way we would like it to. Yeah. Well, I think that's why we are exploring solutions and so we thank Hannah Murphy. I think she I think that

was on the ABC. So, if you wanted to read that full article, Spotify quotas, $250 fees, and a 24-hour rage channel. Um, cool. So, that's going to bring us to the end of part one. We are going to have a quick listen to a song. The song of the week is from Melbourne based artist Anuja. He is originally from Sri Lanka and we're going to listen to his song When I Awake. Go have a listen to the full song if you want that full hit. We'll be back shortly. Build aw. Shut the chest of our thoughts

tight. I'm paddling forward, but I'm floating here, holding closer. I should leave. Come pull me over. I want to hold you. It's getting warmer. Just thinking about you. Take me and keep me close. Cuz when I wake, we're aart again. I'm running nearer, closing in on you. I can see clearest day, still far away. I can't take it no more. Cuz when I wake, I still ache. I [Music] still When I wake from Anua. Beautiful. Very nice. Very nice. Ash, what what grabbed you immediately

when you first listened to this track? I think I mean that little pattern, the Is it a guitar or like I think then the synth picks it up later or the keys? I love that pattern. It sort of gave me like Ben Howard kind of vibes like like that picking sort of thing. Yeah. Um and the vocal was really nice and present and I think um he has a really nice vocal tone. Um, so yeah, I really liked that initial initial opening. Um, I think it felt very like serene. Yeah, he's got a very very soft presence in

his voice, isn't it? It's it's very softly spoken, like calming. Yeah, really gentle. Nice pronunciation. Like I feel like um it felt like you just kind of like it didn't feel jarring. It all felt very smooth. It was really nice. Um I did like the backing vocals, too. Yes, the backing the atmospheric um vocals were great. I liked in the second chorus how it introduced um the shaker. I felt like that just I thought so too. I heard I was like really like enjoying the shaker. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the

backing vocals sort of um announced themselves a bit more as the song went on too. I almost I almost got like a um there's some Ed Sheeranesque vibes in there. I thought that too. Yeah. And I almost felt like Ed Sharon met uh an artist called Asge Gear. Do you know an artist called Asgar? He's a great artist. You should check him out. I think he's from like Iceland or something like that. But yeah, very very soft voice. Very soft. Similar vocal tone I thought. I feel like it started

Ben Howard got um Ed Sheery and then towards the end I was getting like Taylor Swift vibes with the like full band like with the bridge and then that like kind of big bigger chorus towards the end which is funny cuz this artist probably doesn't want to be associated with Taylor Swift I think. Um, however, some of her new folklore and like um her later albums sound they're a little more like atmospheric and I think that's sort of what I'm referencing there. So, just by the way, I I can get on board with

that from the the trajectory of the song. I think Taylor's songs often will end with a nice big sort of full climax. It's not even not necessarily jarring climax, but it's just introducing more elements that give it more um Yeah. Yeah. And I think this song had that sort of almost um subtle build. You don't even know it's happening until you really stop to pay attention to it. It's just giving it some momentum. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Any other thoughts about that song? No, I think I think I was I was

listening to the lyrics, but then I think when you're listening to a song um and you're enjoying like lots of different parts of the song, I don't know if you find this with your musical brain or not, but I I feel like it takes a few lessons lessons a few lessons for a song to sink in. Um, and I I really love a first impression because sometimes it feels so different after you know the song really well. But I feel like um I was listening to the lyrics in the first half and then when things started building, I was

listening to all the other things in the music. So then I feel like I lost the um my connection with the lyric again. Yeah. Um Oh, that that happens for me at the start. But yeah, I don't know about you if that happens, but yeah, I'm just like listening to all these other things. I'm like, "Oh, and I hear the shaker and I hear the Yeah. Yeah. No, there's way too much going on. I I I suck at listening to lyrics full stop. Even when I know the song, I'm I get lost in the groove or I hear some little

atmospheric element that I hadn't heard before and I tap into that just to see what's going on there. And then like, you know, if you if you miss a paragraph or even if you miss two lines, it's like I don't know where we are in the lyric now. I don't care. I'm in the music now. I actually have a theory that there's like two different types of listeners and some are the lyric listeners and the others are the like musical listeners or the like um they're listening to the

prod or the melody or the you know the other stuff going on in the song. I reckon it takes me like two or three listens to actually hear the lyrics properly because I'm just listening to the melody. So for me it's like the melody first and then like um then all the instruments and the performance of it and then I go to lyric. It's really funny. I've been trying to practice listening to lyrics more. Me too. Like from the start because um I feel like that's where I go wrong at a show.

Yeah. Like I I should be listening to the lyrics so I can connect with the artist, but I'm like listening to all the other stuff. Ah but it's all it's all part of the same produce, right? I feel like there's feelers. I I I distinguish it as feelers and listeners. And I feel like listeners, you could branch off into those two categories. Some people's ears are drawn to the lyrics. I have lots of friends whose people who are drawn to the lyrics, but they're not musically trained normally.

So, yes, I I found that too. I wonder if that's why I think music seems like magic to those people because they really feel it and they're hearing it and they're just connecting immediately and they're not all that other stuff is just there and then when you point it out to them they're like, "Oh, wow. I really love that too." But like that I wish I could turn that off sometimes and just kind of like that I think that's what I meant about like trying to be with the lyric at a show.

Yeah, that's something that I want to do more of. I think I think it's the same for any sort of discipline. I think movie fanatics are the same. I think they're thinking about camera angles, lighting, framing, all these things. So, it's just part of the part of the discipline. Yeah. Um, speaking of song feedback, you can tap into that if you head over to jimjot.com.auu. That is a free service that we offer to provide you with a page worth of notes about your songs. Or you can upgrade the service to get an

indepth full analysis of that songs. That's a 12 listen analysis. And who knows, your submission might end up featuring right here on this very podcast. And feedback is one of the most important artist development tools you have. In fact, artist development is where Jim Jot thrives. With our tried and tested development course, you can unlock your an artist and find your musical direction, all within the context of your situation. Starting at just $30, you can empower your creative being today. So, zoom over to

jimjot.com.au to see those deals in more detail. And that brings us to our artist development chitchat. Ash, I like to ask our guests, what is the first point that you can recall that really was like a aha moment for your artistry, for your creativity or for your even industry perspective? What was a point of artist development that you encountered? Oh my gosh. Again, I'm like, there's so many. Yeah. I feel like I've gone through phases of my journey. Um, like I'm turning 30 soon

and I feel like there's just a whole lifetime worth of those moments. Let me try and think of like should I go I guess do we want to go like most recent most recent most recent aha moment? Yeah. Yeah. Um, yesterday I realized that all I've ever wanted to do is sing backing vocals. And it is my favorite thing in the whole world. Mhm. And I've been experiencing resistance towards my own solo project for maybe five five years. But um and I went and did a coaching course and I learned all about creativity and mindset

and that was amazing. And then I went and did a bunch of therapy because I was super anxious and really like I've really lost my identity through co and was like who am I if I'm not performing feel like I was disconnected from my artistry and what I found is that I was putting way too much pressure on it and um expecting it to be to look like I guess what I thought people expect an artist to be which is like you need to be an artist and then fully back that artistry and like maybe you need to um it's sort of

like commit 100% or like don't do it kind of thing. It's like an all or nothing mindset. And what I realized is that I've actually never really wanted to be a solo artist. the the then I can relate this back to an aha moment I had when I was a teenager which was that I the first time I realized I really wanted to do music completely was when I was 16 and I stood on on stage with a band. Yeah. Right. And that was it for me. I was like I just want to be with a band. Were you doing backing vocals for that

or were you doing Yeah. Right. And the whole the whole time I was singing back in vocals I'm just in flow state just like having the best time like no nerves like just complete authenticity and like I know that uh I felt good like I even feel it in my body you know and then as soon as it's my turn to be the solo artist the thinking oh I want to get this right now blah blah blah blah blah blah and I've just realized that it's because I think in my head to be a successful artist and singer I had I had

to be the one in the middle. But actually, I don't know if I've ever really thrived there. And I think it's not because I don't believe in myself, because I do believe in myself. Um, but I just really love being I've always said I want to be like I wish I was a guitarist because then I can just be in the band. Yeah. Um, and uh I just I just want to be a part of um other people's projects. I get the most energy when I'm like on the side there and I'm looking over at the lead

artist and they're looking back at me and they're like, "I'm so glad I've got you." Yeah. You know, because when they feel that, we feel that connection. It's sort of like, "Don't worry, I got your back. I I want to be that for people." And that's where I feel the most like com confident and excited. So, yeah. So, that's a big aha moment I had only in the last like week. um which was just that I think my idea of success and my idea that it was a problem that I

didn't want to be a solo artist um and at the same time I can still create music and release it. It doesn't mean that I don't want to do that but I just wasn't feeling driven to it uh to like actually perform it and like push it and create socials and do all that. Like I just like actually couldn't care less, which is a wild thing to say because I feel like if you had asked me a year ago, I would have felt really like upset about that. Yeah. But yeah, anyway, so that's sounds like you've it sounds like

you've got in touch with um an authentic part of your creative being and I think by through that association with your authentic creative being, I reckon your creative projects are going to benefit from it just by default. Yeah. Um, and you might find that, you know, you find some new life in solo projects. Not saying that you have to do that because I think it's awesome and empowering to be able to say backing vocals and just to acknowledge that you feed off other people's energy and supporting other

people's performances, too. Like, what's wrong with that? What What we shouldn't be afraid to say that. I think it's I think it's like a thing that it's like, oh, it's okay if you're a guitarist or a drummer or like an instrumentalist and you're like, oh, I want to be in a band, but I don't want to be the front man. And that's okay as a as an instrumentalist. But as a vocalist, for some reason, it's like, oh, but surely you have a deep desire to be the one in

the middle. And it's like, well, actually, I don't think I ever really have. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't I don't feel like an urge of to do that. I actually feel like I don't want that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, um, but in saying that, I love I love singing and I love creating my own music because it's fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's still expressive, right? So, totally. That can just be a therapeutic part of your being even at the very minimum. Um, I think it actually is performance. I think it has

to do with performance for me. Maybe maybe that's the line that I draw there. Yeah. Sorry. I will say with um guitar um there is a little bit of that in that you have lead guitar and rhythm guitar. Um and I think there is a little bit of like that idea of that most guitarists want to be the lead guitarist because there is that little spotlight moment to do your little solo and stuff. But I would definitely be the same. I I would much rather be a rhythm guitarist. And I think more guitarists would be

um willing to to express that and get in touch with that than expressing that they want to be a backing vocalist as opposed to the the lead vocalist. But there is there is that and there's probably other aspects of other instruments that I'm not sure of too, like being first violin in a in an orchestra next to like the I don't know. I don't really know too much about the orchestra. I think at the same time I think what I'm I agree. I think like there's always a we always want a moment

to shine. I don't think that that's something that goes away. Like if there's an artist who's like I want my BBs to have a little moment. Like great. Like that's fun. I just don't want to be the moment the whole song the whole set. I'd like I just want to pop out and be like hey for a bit and then like let's go back to focusing on you. I actually just really feel relaxed in that space in in the in the middle I guess. Um and I guess when you think of an orchestra,

if we use that as an example, yeah, there there probably are like um a first violin who maybe does um a a solo or a part that um sticks out a little more than the other parts. Um but in the end, they're all part of an orchestra. And I find that there's there does feel like sometimes when you're just a singer but not playing an instrument in as part of a band, there feels like a separation sometimes between the vocalist. And it's like there's the lead singer, they're the artist, and then this is the band.

Yeah. And that's been created for a reason in some scenarios. And in other scenarios, I think all I ever wanted was to just be in the band. Yeah. So I also think comparing uh the vocal to an instrument, there's already a a different level of vulnerability to to be expressed through voice. I don't know what it is exactly, but we give a lot of um people are scared to sing, you know, really scared to sing. Um which sucks because like sing alongs are great. it it doesn't mean you have to be a great

singer. But yeah, we're very very scared to express ourselves through singing. Um whereas I think people would be more inclined if a piano was there, they'll just hit a couple of keys, you know, they'll hit a couple of random keys and just even if they don't know what they're doing, they'll make noise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. They they will shy away from it. So I think that's really cool. Um, have you had any big moments recently for my creative self? Um well, one sort of ongoing uh

conversation of development I'm having with myself is that uh I I've never not never since I was probably 20. I haven't wanted to be an artist, you know, like I haven't wanted to Exactly what you're describing. Like I I I made the switch that I'm writing music, creating music, jamming, anything. I I don't even really want to perform really. Like I know I I'll perform because it's good for me to learn my songs. It makes me learn my songs again. Otherwise, I just forget

them. But um then there's always that nudging voice that's like I I guess it's something that you're alluding to as well. That nudging voice is like you should you can do it sort of thing, you know, like you could you could be an artist. But then I'm also it's not that I'm resisting it. I just feel like that's part of every every musician's uh conversational talking table. There's always that voice of like you you should be there, you know, or you could do that sort of

thing. It's like, yeah, but I actually don't want to when it comes when it comes to reality, when it comes to the practicalities, the logistics of it all. And I think that was that was hard for me to accept I think was that I felt that way because I think that I in my head had made that mean that I wasn't a real artist or that um it meant that my art wasn't I don't know like important. And I think that now I'm like oh no it is important. Yeah. And I don't really care

about performing it. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. and I'm I'm really keen to record it and put it out. Yeah, I still think there's extreme value in sharing your music. And once again, just from like the development of my creative being, I feel like I can't let go of a song and fully move on from it until I've released it and now I can't tweak it, you know, now it's done. Like I literally the songs that I've Yeah, I've only released three songs, but each one it's the same. It keeps giving me that.

It's like I'll be playing that song so much and like working on it until I've recorded it and then I've released it and then I just don't even want to play it. It's like I don't even want to just jam it, you know? I just want to move on from it. Do something new. It's done. It's behind creative beings. It's satisfied. It's liberated from that song, you know, and that song's liberated from me. So, it can it can go live its own life. Yeah. Yeah. And I

think hiding in a dark corner on Spotify. I think going through that process of realizing what you really want as an artist, as a performer, as as whoever you identify as a musician, whether that's a guitarist or a vocalist or this or that or a songwriter or a producer. Um, I think really in the end, you just have to be okay with what you decide is right for you. And I think what's hard about that is just trying to um go through all those messy phases where you're like trying things and you

try that and then accepting how you're feeling throughout that process. But also understanding that sometimes things don't feel good and and it might be part of the process and like whether you decide that that's worth it or not is up to you. Whereas for me, like um I love the recording process that all that's all G, but I don't really care about doing a live gig of your songs that much anymore. And that but that that's okay. Yeah. But for someone else, they might love doing the live stuff and

recording for them is a drainer, you know. Totally. So totally. Yeah. And I think what's worth it today is not necessarily the same thing that's worth it tomorrow. It's such a dynamic conversation. Like, it's something that you can't just answer once and then just rest in that. It's something that you sort of have to keep coming back to and tuning into like, wait, where am I with my artistic being? Like, where what am I? It'll evolve. For sure. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Where am I with my

That's a really cool question. I think I'm going to steal that and use that. Maybe I should put it as a calendar popup every month. Where am I with my artistic being? Because I think that is a good question. And I think right now I feel really sure about how I feel right now. And then in like I don't know a year's time I might change and might decide that I really want to uh perform more of my music again. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that how I feel right now isn't right or an an aha moment. It

still is. It's it's my today aha moment. It's part of the journey. Part of the journey. Cool. Cool. Yeah. I think uh we can about pull this to a close. Ash, is there anywhere you want to direct people? Speaking of solo projects. Oh yeah. Um if you want to hear some of my songs on Spotify, my name is Ash Kennedy. And um follow me on Instagram, Ash Kennedy. Music, and we can hang out and chat there. And I'll be posting some more BV stuff because I just I just want to post some harmony things. Great. and talk

more about um how lucky I am to be able to be a backing vocalist and tour and do all these cool things and um support other people's art. Yeah. And also make my own art and maybe maybe I could sing BVs for you. Be an artist. Be an artist. Do it. It's so fun. Awesome. All right, team. Thanks for tuning in. Episode 4. Thanks for having me. Australia New Zealand music podcast. Ciao.